Hi all
I keep my juvie T's in those standard 11cm x 11cm square fish tanks avaliable at most pet shops and have done so for a while now but have recently noticed a very strong chemical-type smell when I open these cages and 2 spiders a B. boehmei and C. fasciatum are showing strong symptoms of DKS (I believe as a result of the silicone).

Now I know that these tanks are very widely used in the T community. Are any of you experiencing anything similar? Can anyone point me in the right direction as to fixing the problem?

Thanks!
BP

None of my slings are housed in them cubes. I use glass jars with holes in the lid. Save your glass jars and use em. Only when they are bigger do I house them in a proper display.
I'll post some pics.

Bushpilot wrote:

Hi all
I keep my juvie T's in those standard 11cm x 11cm square fish tanks avaliable at most pet shops and have done so for a while now but have recently noticed a very strong chemical-type smell when I open these cages and 2 spiders a B. boehmei and C. fasciatum are showing strong symptoms of DKS (I believe as a result of the silicone).

Now I know that these tanks are very widely used in the T community. Are any of you experiencing anything similar? Can anyone point me in the right direction as to fixing the problem?

Thanks!
BP

FIRST OF ALL, GET THOSE TARANTULAS OUT OF THOSE CAGES! Put them in just about any other kind of container you can find ASAP! Cleaned, plastic food cartons will work just fine for now. Don't use any of the usual substrates at the moment. Instead use a folded paper towel that's ever so slightly damp. Be sure they have some, slight ventilation like one or two small holes punched or melted through the sides. Just be sure that they can't chew their way out or otherwise escape, especially through the vent holes. Do I need to specify that each tarantula MUST have it's own, private container?

Next, since I'm literally on the other side of the planet we have completely different containers, so please pardon my ignorance. Here are some possibilities to get you thinking.

POSSIBILITY #1: Are these containers made of glass held together with silicone rubber? Is the smell a very strong vinegar smell? If these are true, what you're smelling is the acetic acid used to prevent the raw, unvulcanized, liquid, silicone rubber from curing (or "vulcanizing"). As the acetic acid evaporates the raw, liquid rubber builds numerous cross-links between its molecules to form the familiar, solid rubber used to hold all glass aquariums together. Clean them out and place the cages out in direct sunlight and open to the air for one or two days. The silicone rubber will cure quickly as the acetic acid completely evaporates from the heat. This problem may arise if the manufacturer used a particularly cheap form of silicone rubber, or if they were made within a matter of hours or a very few days before you bought them and set them up.

POSSIBILITY #2: Are the cages made out of a clear plastic resembling Plexiglas with the individual plastic panels glued together? Do they smell a lot like nail polish remover, paint thinner, or acetone? Again, if the cages were made very recently and an excess of the solvent was used, there's a chance that they hadn't had an opportunity to properly cure before you set them up. And again, clean them out and set them in direct sunlight open to the air for a day or two to allow them to cure properly.

POSSIBILITY #3: This is the bizarre one, but the one I favor. What are you using for substrate? Shredded coconut husk? And it's damp, right? Shredded coconut husk, by whatever commercial name, is the raw, untreated husk of the common coconut (no surprise here!) except for simple shredding, compacting, and drying. That means that it hasn't been composted or otherwise treated to forestall rotting. All of the original sugars, complex polysaccharides, other carbohydrates, proteins, lipids and such are still present, just dried out and relatively harmless as long as the coco husk is kept relatively dry.

(Peat, by contrast, is naturally composted in a peat bog (swamp) over a span of centuries or millennia. Most of these substances have been consumed. Those that remain are so tough and indigestible that only a handful of organisms, mostly fungi that are so off the mainstream and specialized that they don't pose a threat to your tarantulas, can use them for food.)

Thus, using shredded coconut husk in a damp situation is a lot like using dried lawn clippings. Add a little water, restrict the ventilation, and you get fermentation. (Remember that the fermentation produces a gas that in turn can produce extreme pressure, and a really potent stench! If you try this experiment at home be sure to have a plan "B" for disposing of the end products that won't make your home or the neighborhood uninhabitable for the next week!) The exact end products of that fermentation will depend a lot on the exact nature of what's fermenting (e.g., lawn trimmings mostly of grass, sawdust from wood, shredded coconut husk, etc.) and which microorganisms are doing the fermentation.

One end product that I am absolutely sure of is carbon dioxide, CO₂. CO₂ is used as an anesthetic with arthropods. Could your tarantulas be partly anesthetized because of the fermentation of shredded coconut husk and restricted ventilation?

There are also several other, possible end products. One of them could be ethyl alcohol or some other alcohols. In that case, your tarantulas may merely be drunk.

Another set of end products might be those normal to protein decay because the coco husk still contains significant amounts of protein. These are such things as putrescine , cadaverine and tutrescine. (I tried to find more information on tutrescine but couldn't. Perhaps it's not too important in the decay process.) The mystery gas that is blamed on killing crickets in unclean cricket cages is presumably a combination of these that results from dead and decaying cricket carcasses. Given the right circumstances, they could also be responsible for your sick spiderlings, especially in a cage with poor ventilation.

In this last instance, I'd clean the cages and use horticultural peat instead. If the tarantulas recover, it's strong evidence that the culprit is rotting coco husk in a poorly ventilated cage. If they die anyway, we've proven nothing.

UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU DID AS A RESULT OF THIS PROBLEM AND HOW WELL IT WORKED. WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME? THIS COULD BE CRITICAL INFORMATION FOR OTHER ENTHUSIASTS. PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US HANGING!

Sorry I can't be of more help to you. Best of luck.

That was a mouth full. But very informative. I didnt realize this about Coconut Husk. How often should substrate be replaced?

Stanley A. Schultz wrote:

Bushpilot wrote:

Hi all
I keep my juvie T's in those standard 11cm x 11cm square fish tanks avaliable at most pet shops and have done so for a while now but have recently noticed a very strong chemical-type smell when I open these cages and 2 spiders a B. boehmei and C. fasciatum are showing strong symptoms of DKS (I believe as a result of the silicone).

Now I know that these tanks are very widely used in the T community. Are any of you experiencing anything similar? Can anyone point me in the right direction as to fixing the problem?

Thanks!
BP

FIRST OF ALL, GET THOSE TARANTULAS OUT OF THOSE CAGES! Put them in just about any other kind of container you can find ASAP! Cleaned, plastic food cartons will work just fine for now. Don't use any of the usual substrates at the moment. Instead use a folded paper towel that's ever so slightly damp. Be sure they have some, slight ventilation like one or two small holes punched or melted through the sides. Just be sure that they can't chew their way out or otherwise escape, especially through the vent holes. Do I need to specify that each tarantula MUST have it's own, private container?

Next, since I'm literally on the other side of the planet we have completely different containers, so please pardon my ignorance. Here are some possibilities to get you thinking.

POSSIBILITY #1: Are these containers made of glass held together with silicone rubber? Is the smell a very strong vinegar smell? If these are true, what you're smelling is the acetic acid used to prevent the raw, unvulcanized, liquid, silicone rubber from curing (or "vulcanizing"). As the acetic acid evaporates the raw, liquid rubber builds numerous cross-links between its molecules to form the familiar, solid rubber used to hold all glass aquariums together. Clean them out and place the cages out in direct sunlight and open to the air for one or two days. The silicone rubber will cure quickly as the acetic acid completely evaporates from the heat. This problem may arise if the manufacturer used a particularly cheap form of silicone rubber, or if they were made within a matter of hours or a very few days before you bought them and set them up.

POSSIBILITY #2: Are the cages made out of a clear plastic resembling Plexiglas with the individual plastic panels glued together? Do they smell a lot like nail polish remover, paint thinner, or acetone? Again, if the cages were made very recently and an excess of the solvent was used, there's a chance that they hadn't had an opportunity to properly cure before you set them up. And again, clean them out and set them in direct sunlight open to the air for a day or two to allow them to cure properly.

POSSIBILITY #3: This is the bizarre one, but the one I favor. What are you using for substrate? Shredded coconut husk? And it's damp, right? Shredded coconut husk, by whatever commercial name, is the raw, untreated husk of the common coconut (no surprise here!) except for simple shredding, compacting, and drying. That means that it hasn't been composted or otherwise treated to forestall rotting. All of the original sugars, complex polysaccharides, other carbohydrates, proteins, lipids and such are still present, just dried out and relatively harmless as long as the coco husk is kept relatively dry.

(Peat, by contrast, is naturally composted in a peat bog (swamp) over a span of centuries or millennia. Most of these substances have been consumed. Those that remain are so tough and indigestible that only a handful of organisms, mostly fungi that are so off the mainstream and specialized that they don't pose a threat to your tarantulas, can use them for food.)

Thus, using shredded coconut husk in a damp situation is a lot like using dried lawn clippings. Add a little water, restrict the ventilation, and you get fermentation. (Remember that the fermentation produces a gas that in turn can produce extreme pressure, and a really potent stench! If you try this experiment at home be sure to have a plan "B" for disposing of the end products that won't make your home or the neighborhood uninhabitable for the next week!) The exact end products of that fermentation will depend a lot on the exact nature of what's fermenting (e.g., lawn trimmings mostly of grass, sawdust from wood, shredded coconut husk, etc.) and which microorganisms are doing the fermentation.

One end product that I am absolutely sure of is carbon dioxide, CO₂. CO₂ is used as an anesthetic with arthropods. Could your tarantulas be partly anesthetized because of the fermentation of shredded coconut husk and restricted ventilation?

There are also several other, possible end products. One of them could be ethyl alcohol or some other alcohols. In that case, your tarantulas may merely be drunk.

Another set of end products might be those normal to protein decay because the coco husk still contains significant amounts of protein. These are such things as putrescine , cadaverine and tutrescine. (I tried to find more information on tutrescine but couldn't. Perhaps it's not too important in the decay process.) The mystery gas that is blamed on killing crickets in unclean cricket cages is presumably a combination of these that results from dead and decaying cricket carcasses. Given the right circumstances, they could also be responsible for your sick spiderlings, especially in a cage with poor ventilation.

In this last instance, I'd clean the cages and use horticultural peat instead. If the tarantulas recover, it's strong evidence that the culprit is rotting coco husk in a poorly ventilated cage. If they die anyway, we've proven nothing.

UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU DID AS A RESULT OF THIS PROBLEM AND HOW WELL IT WORKED. WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME? THIS COULD BE CRITICAL INFORMATION FOR OTHER ENTHUSIASTS. PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US HANGING!

Sorry I can't be of more help to you. Best of luck.

Very nice.

Well I have the same problem with one of my tanks I made.(still do)
I thought it was the bark I had in there so I removed it and made a polystyrene hide for the tarantula.

I washed the tank and let it sit in the sun for two days washed it out again.
Added substrate, spider and the hide and the smell is back.
None of my other 7 tanks I have got this problem.

I have changed substrate 3 times and all comes from a diffrent batch I have even nuked the substrate for 10mins boiled it on the stove and had it in the sun to dry it out.

So I think it mite be the silicone I bought it was cheap silicone as I was buying stuff at the shop so I just bought it with the other stuff.
No name brand and it was R22.00 I usally pay R44.00.

The smell in the tank is like a sharp toxic smell.smells like some thing is routing
there is air vents two!
Nothing has happened to my spider but I removed her once I read your post Mr. Schultz.

@ Bushpilot are the tanks new or are they old tanks?
maybe its a bad batch of substrate?
or cheap silicone?

Hope there are no ill affects to your TS