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mixing light form and dark form P subfusca


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  • Ceratogyrus
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14 years 8 months ago #41505 by Ceratogyrus
Replied by Ceratogyrus on topic Re: mixing light form and dark form P subfusca
I highly doubt I will be the first one to breed these 2 "forms" together or document it. The Germans have been doing this for years already, so sure there is some German paper out there with this info on.
I will keep most, but there are some people like Cenotaph, Snarf that have shown interest, so sure I could pass some along if the sac is successful. :)

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14 years 8 months ago #41506 by U Kruger
Wow the arguments here are so good that we will all change sides atleast once during the read.
You should think were the idea will go with a spider's locality. We can't insure that we don't breed a spider from the left of Pakistan to a spider from the right so keeping with subspecies that are not recognised is kinda up to the individual. Like we are doing now.

Maybe if scientists got to the spiders before we did it would all be easier. How long does it take to classify a spider? You might get a nice surprise when they end if with several subspecies.

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14 years 8 months ago #41508 by Ceratogyrus
Replied by Ceratogyrus on topic Re: mixing light form and dark form P subfusca
Even though the thread that Taki linked is quite old (And some facts could well have changed by now), everyone that finds this thread interesting, should read that entire thread. There are some big names in the tarantula hobby involved in that discussion with some great facts.
The problem with the thread though is that a lot of it is hearsay. From some of the posts in there, it seems that the localities are not different for the 2 forms, and no one really knows where the first spiders were found, reports of the 2 forms in the same sac, etc.
The spiders are also not subspecies, they are the exact same species. It also sounds like they will not name subspecies in the Theraphosidae family.
As for how long it takes to classify a spider, it depends on the individual. Nothing is stopping you from writing a paper on P.subfusca and publishing it tomorrow. As long as you have all the facts (Probably need to do a lot of "on the ground" work at the locations that they are found, check type specimens in museums, check previous papers where they were classified originally or synonymized, etc), you can write one tomorrow. If the info is all incorrect though and they find problems with the paper it will not be accepted by the arachnid community at large. The other problem is that a spider like P.subfusca is not a high priority problem for Sri Lanka (Or any other country for that matter) and probably doesn't have much "usefulness" to the general public, so you will most probably get no funding to do your research. This means that you would have to fund everything from travels to lab equipment as well as your time for no reward. Not too many people out there that have that kind of resources. Atleast this usually ensures that people do a proper job when writing papers, so as not to waste their own time and effort.

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14 years 8 months ago #41509 by Marius
I did some googling. Found some more hearsay. It is alleged that the original importer (UK at least) separated out the lighter and the darker and labeled them Highland and Lowland to make more money.

Two Germans, Thomas Märklin and Thorsten Kroes have done pretty extensive research into pokies and their names keep popping up in the German discussions on the matter. My German sucks though. Perhaps give them a shout? www.poecilotheria.com/

At best, it seems to be two regional colour variants from the exact same species, so technically speaking it would not be a hybrid if you mix the two?

Personal R0.05 is even if they turn out to be described as different species at some point, they are your T's. Do what you will. What I personally want from the hobby is to know what I have. Hybrids or not, and it seems there are enough people (like yourself & Scarab) willing to be honest about their mixed T's or downright against hybrids that the pure breeds won't be under threat soon. Just have to be picky about who you buy from?

I'm not impossible. I'm being improbable.

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14 years 8 months ago #41510 by Ceratogyrus
Replied by Ceratogyrus on topic Re: mixing light form and dark form P subfusca

Marius wrote: Just have to be picky about who you buy from?


That's it.
I definately understand where Taki and Mammon are coming from with their concerns in the "Discussion time" thread.
But just because we are talking about it, doesn't mean that people will now go and do it. Afterall, this topic is not a new one that we started, it has been going on for years (Both accidentally and purposefully). Lets rather set a good example and explain to people that if they decide to hybridize and sell the slings as something that they are not, that the tarantula community will come down on them. If you want to breed hybrids, know that they are your responsibility if you let any leave your property. Either you have to be prepared to keep them all or else kill those that you can't look after.

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14 years 8 months ago #41549 by Taki Tsonis
Cerat if you get any fresh exuviums or dead males/females of your subfuscas of both/either forms, would you either get them to Ian or let me take them too him to see if we can have them DNA tested?
Of course they could already be hybridised but maybe we can get some sort of starting point here....

You can take an Aphonopelma to crickets but you can't make it eat!

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