In my profession we deal with interpretation and enforcement of laws daily. I have read almost everything available and attend regular seminars and courses on enviromental law amongst others. What confounds me and is the source of heated debate is the lack of uniformity in the laws relating to the keeping of non-indigenous species of animals. This applies to all animals whether they be monkeys, snakes or spiders just to mention a few.
To give an example I owned a marmosette monkey while living in Port Elizabeth requiring no permit and breeders openly advertised in local newspapers. The same pet could not be possessed in the Western Cape even with a permit. These are not indigenous species and keeping them therefore has no impact on local populations.
In the old Transkei area of the Eastern Cape the keeping of my boas that I have kept for years in Port Elizabeth and Cradock suddenly became illegal without a permit. Now logic dictates that in order to be legal I must apply for a permit but the red-tape is such that 3 months later being honest is not working and I am still trying to get proof of where I got them from 4 years ago. Now what happens? I get sick of trying to do the right thing and since these are much loved and treasured pets, I i am loath to get rid of them so I have 2 choices. I go underground and deny their existence OR I do the unthinkable and release them out of spite.
The logic of having one set of rules and by-laws for one area and a different set for another area defies reason.
exactly the same applies in our amazing hobby. Why should it be legal for my mate in KZN to enjoy and breed at profit every conceivable species except indigenous ones while my mate in the Western Cape and my area risks confiscation and prosecution? Our Constitution guarantees equality under our law. Surely murder is murder and rape is rape wherever you live.
Let me know how you guys feel and lets see what we can do about this unfair discrimination.

Hi Greg.

Cool. I'll be on hell's legal team regarding discrimination :evil:

Murder, rape, no matter the area, the victim and therefore 'damages' are the same no matter the geographical area. So laws and [strike]restitution/[/strike]punishment should be the same.

In the case of wildlife, which varies greatly from one geographical area to the next, would it not fall to the local authorities of each unique area to asses the impact of introduced exotics and legislate to protect their fauna?

I was under the impression that this was the reason T's couldn't be kept in WCape, as opposed to a blanket ban on all local species to protect them all from the same exploitation - collection for export thereby decimating local populations?

Ok, lets see where this topic goes.

Greg Nel wrote: These are not indigenous species and keeping them therefore has no impact on local populations.

I am not sure on how potentially invasive monkeys are, compared to tarantula's, but if tarantulas were to escape, they could potentially become invasive. Because the WC is such a unique area with its fynbos, the laws in WC are stricter than in for example Gauteng. Just look at snakekid's avatar.

Greg Nel wrote: ...OR I do the unthinkable and release them out of spite.

Which is why they do not want to even allow them in WC, permit or not with regards to the unique environment.

I do kind of agree that it is only fair that if something is allowed to be kept in Gauteng, the rest of the country should have the same laws. But it would be interesting to know if someone from WC has even bothered going to speak to someone from Nature Conservation in WC to find out what is stopping them. Who know's, maybe you find out that the laws are majority hearsay and you are actually allowed to keep them? Pretty sure they are illegal though, just saying.
Why not get a few keepers together and make a plan to go speak to Nat Con WC like the people up in Gauteng have done? We are definately making in roads and could in the near future have the possibility of keeping and breeding local species, which 2 years ago people would have laughed at.

I think the key is to go there with an open mind though and be able to come up with reasonable ideas and solutions to problems. Going there with an attitude of you are right and Nat Con is wrong will just put you further behind the times and make it even harder to keep spiders in the near future legally. So maybe get together and select a few people that could go forward and negotiate on your behalf (Maybe someone like Patrick Gildenhuys, who has some good knowledge of baboon spiders and tarantulas).

I agree fully with the suggestion that constructive dialogue with the authorities is the answer. Going with any form of hostile attitude will get us nowhere.
It is also correct that while there are national laws in place local authorities pass bylaws dealing with their areas specific geographical diversity and otential risks.While the WC is unique in its own right with its fynbos etc. its no more specialised than KZN with its tropical climate or Limpopo or the Free State. Each of these eco-systems is unique and vulnerable. In KZN keeping tarantulas has been legal for decades yet there has never been a report of rogue imported tarantulas desimating local species. The only explenation tendered for the ban in WC is exactly as Ceratogyris states that the fear exists that foreign arachnids will escape and overun the indigenous species and disrupt the food chain. This fear holds water if there has never been foreign t's in the WC kept by enthusiasts but to believe this one would have to be very nieve.

Its all a question of management of the hobby and convincing the authorities that these pets can be kept responsibly.

I still intend doing detailed research on the rationale behind the conflicting regulations and working toward a workable compromise.
Lets keep the debate open to get as many points of view as possible.

Doubt they have been there for decades. And if they were, it would be very small numbers, with a small chance of multiple specimens of the same species escaping. Tarantulas were always believed to be illegal, so the hobby only became 'big' in the last 6 or 7 years maybe. Way too early to tell if some species have become invasive. It could take 40 years for a species to take over. If not 100 years.
Convincing authorities that keepers can be responsible, will be tricky. Doubt you could convince 10% of the people on here that keepers are responsible. Once again, just look at snakekids avatar or the story a year or so ago where around 1000 parahybana's escaped from a keeper in JHB. Who knows what could happen with them in 20 years time?

Ceratogryus i think we misunderstanding each other. I never stated t's have been inevitably been released for decades in KZN i said the legal hobby has been around there for decades. I am aware of at least 4 breeders who have been in the trade there for over 20 years. One for nearly 30 years and is honoured with the reputation of starting the exotic spider trade in Gauteng.
An ecosystem is extremely difficult to simply disrupt with a few carelesly released specimens.
In so far as your reference to the escaped parahybana is concerned i am sure you would agree that the probability of 10 of these reaching adulthood would be exceptional in a hostile foreign enviroment. Perhaps its keepers like this that should be banned for life.
Responsibility is relative as is having a drivers licence. Who decides who gets one and who doesnt?
I am not sure which camp you in on this point but it appears you support regional bans or am i mistaken?