Unfortunately, nature conservation is seriously understaffed, so they don't often check up.
They would probably just send people out if there is a complaint made to the green scorpions.
With our discussions about the possibility of breeding permits, nature conservation has made it very clear that if breeding permits were to be approved, that we as the public (keeping spiders) will carry a lot of responsibility to self regulate the baboon spider hobby. So if you notice that someone is keeping baboon spiders without a permit or selling them without the needed permit, you should take it upon yourself to report the guilty party.
If breeding permits are to be issued, the people breeding the spiders will carry a lot of responsibility making sure that the stay above board and make sure that the people that the spiders are being sold to are responsible enough to care for them. People need to understand that if this comes into action, nature conservation is putting a lot of faith in us to not screw this up. If we do, permits will become as scarce as hen's teeth again.
On the same hand, people not breeding these spiders are expected to only buy from people with permits and report those that do not have permits.

Thanx Cerat.

Makes sense to me. Unfortunately not everyone has the same ethics.

While on this topic: Is there a group/club at Nat Con that you can register for for the purpose of auditing these things since they are understaffed and expecting the community to monitor these thing?

abrievh wrote: Thanx Cerat.

Makes sense to me. Unfortunately not everyone has the same ethics.

While on this topic: Is there a group/club at Nat Con that you can register for for the purpose of auditing these things since they are understaffed and expecting the community to monitor these thing?

At the moment the group is tarantulas.co.za.
We are relying on the members to report any illegal activity.
I know a few people out there have the odd P.murinus, etc, but that is not a major worry.
What we need to stop is people from selling these spiders and breeding them.

I have tried to find relevant legislation that includes all the genera listed by Hendrijs, but cannot see any further than the TOPS list on Schedule 7. If there are any links or documents which contain these, I would love to get hold of them. According to the KZN 2010 list they only list Schedule 7. According to some legal opinions, the way the Acts and Regulations are written, it is only the specific genera and species given by name that are covered, so that leaves a lot of leeway. However, it would appear that interpretations are tending towards the inclusive and I cannot see on what basis. According to me if the genus or species is not listed, I do not need a permit, but I was told by someone at Gauteng Nature Conservation that I must read the regulations "in the spirit in which they were written". If that is not vague...

I have put some of the relevant Acts and Regs below - please correct me if I have omitted some important stuff. I do not have the Cape legislation, but from what I understand it is a blanket NO. It can be seen that since 1983 nothing has changed as far as the genera covered are concerned - in spite of taxonomic changes which happened and should have been considered it the legislation was supposed to have been inclusive - this is not the case. The changes from 1983 to 2004 have not been incorporated, therefore the reasonable man assumption is that they are excluded by not being specifically included.

Proclamation No. 22, 1995 31 March 1995
ASSIGNMENT OF THE NATURE CONSERVATION ORDINANCE, 1983, OF THE FORMER PROVINCE TRANSVAAL, TO CERTAIN PROVINCES UNDER SECTION 235( OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA, 1993

INVERTEBRATA (SECTION 45)
Prohibited acts with certain invertebrata
45. (1) No person shall collect, catch, kill, keep, purchase, sell, donate or receive as a donation, convey, import into the Province or export or remove therefrom an invertebrate referred to in Schedule 7 to this Ordinance, unless he is the holder of a permit which authorizes him to do so.
(2) The Administrator may by notice in the Provincial Gazette amend, substitute or repeal Schedule 7 to this Ordinance.
(3) Any person who contravenes or fails to comply with subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction-
(a) where such person has not been previously convicted of a contravention of this section, to a fine not exceeding R1 000 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 12 months or to both such fine and such imprisonment;
(b) where such person has been previously convicted of a contravention of this section, to a fine not exceeding R1 500 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 18 months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
SCHEDULE 7
Scientific name
All species of baboon spiders belonging to the genera referred to hereby
Ceratogyrus spp Harpactira spp Pterinochilus spp


NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT ACT 107 OF 1998
No mention of invertebrate or spider.

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004
Protection of threatened or protected species
Listing of species that are threatened or in need of national protection
56. (1) The Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, publish a list of-
(a) critically endangered species, being any indigenous species facing an extremely high risk of extinction in the wild in the immediate future;
(b) endangered species, being any indigenous species facing a high risk of extinction in the wild in the near future, although they are not a critically endangered species;
(c) vulnerable species, being any indigenous species facing an extremely high risk of extinction in the wild in the medium-term future, although they are not a critically endangered species or an endangered species; and
(d) protected species, being any species which are of such high conservation value or national importance that they require national protection, although they are not listed in terms of paragraph (a), (b) or (c).
(2) The Minister must review the lists published in terms of subsection (1) at least every five years
Restricted activities involving listed threatened or protected species
57. (1) A person may not carry out a restricted activity involving a specimen of a listed threatened or protected species without a permit issued in terms of Chapter 7
(2) The Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, prohibit the carrying out of any activity
(a) which is of a nature that may negatively impact on the survival of a listed threatened or protected species; and
(b) which is specified in the notice
or prohibit the carrying out of such activity without a permit issued in terms of Chapter 7.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of a specimen of a listed threatened or protected species conveyed from outside the Republic in transit through the Republict to a destination outside the Republic, provided that such transit through the Republic takes place under the control of an environmental management inspector.

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004: THREATENED AND PROTECTED SPECIES REGULATIONS (2006)
The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has in terms of section 97 of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No. 10 of 2004), made the regulations relating to listed threatened and protected species as set out in the Schedule hereto.
LISTS OF THREATENED AND PROTECTED SPECIES ISSUED IN TERMS OF SECTION 56(1) OF THE NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004 (for information only)

SCHEDULE B1: Protected Species – Indigenous species of high conservation value or national importance that require national protection

Scientific Name
Common Name

INVERTEBRATA
Ceratogyrus spp – All species Horned Baboon Spiders
Harpactira spp – All species Common Baboon Spiders
Pterinochilus spp – All species Golden Baboon Spiders
Hadogenes spp – All species Flat Rock Scorpions
Opisthacanthus spp - All species Creeping Scorpions
Opistophthalmus spp – All species Burrowing Scorpions

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004 (ACT 10 of 2004): PUBLICATION OF LISTS OF CRITICALLY ENDANGERED, ENDANGERED, VULNERABLE AND PROTECTED SPECIES (Gazetted 23-2-2007)
By virtue of the powers vested in me under section 56(1) of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No. 10 of 2004), I, Marthinus van Schalkwyk, Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, hereby publish lists of critically endangered, endangered, vulnerable and protected species as set out in the schedule hereunder.
SCHEDULE A: Threatened Species – Species threatened by one or more restricted activity (ies) as defined in the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004
CATEGORY: Protected Species - Indigenous species of high conservation value or national importance that require national protection
INVERTEBRATA
Opisthacanthus spp - All species Creeping Scorpions
Opistophthalmus spp - All species Burrowing Scorpions
Hadogenes spp - All species Flat Rock Scorpions

Pterinochilus spp - All species Golden Baboon Spiders
Ceratogyrus spp - All species Horned Baboon Spiders
Harpactira spp - All species Common Baboon Spiders

It is definately wrong that we should have to "take it in the spirit of it", but I kind of understand where they are coming from.
We are working with a bunch of people sitting in the office that have never seen a baboon spider in their lives before. Our government struggles with providing houses for people or protecting rhino's, nevermind trying to keep up with recent taxonomical changes of spiders.
Yes, this shouldn't be an excuse, but its the country we live in unfortunately.

My personal opinion is that we should stay away from all baboon spiders until all permits and systems are under control. Maybe it is easier for me to say because I have a permit (Which lists species like Augacephalus on it), but that's my opinion I suppose. Just makes sense not to try push or test the boundaries, when nat con is trying to help out IMO.

Hi Cerat

I have not read every sentence in this topic. I just want to get some info quickely.

1. What can I do if I want to keep 2 or 3 Ceratogyrus darlingi Ts?
2. Can I still get a permit?
3. What is the initial cost?
4. What +/- will the yearly renewal be?