Guys I was under the imprestion this was a debate and not a argument I'm out

chondro3000 wrote:

Guys I was under the imprestion this was a debate and not a argument I'm out

Not much of a debate if the law says its illegal. Its the law.

WOW, we like to argue dont we!! Any species of T that has the propensity to become invasive should be illegal to import or breed. In terms of specimens already kept in captivity, that is where they should stay, possibly in a conservation/education type park or with the original owner under governance of the powers that be, as difficult as it would be to moderate. Futhermore there are species which are not illegal that could become invasive e.g. Stromatopelma calceatum and in addition most T's based on average stats would survive happily in KZN.

In order for effective control of the hobby conservation bodies would need to do extensive research to eliminate possible invasive species, we all also need to remember that its not only the spider that can become problematic, but also the smaller organisms they bring along with them. Its a tricky situation that is complicated to fully understand due to immense numbers of variables, for example one argument I have voiced and heard before is the issue of humidity, most T's require high humidity yes; but humidity under the ground is different to humidity above it, especially if there is moisture available; most burrowing Ts stay in or close to their burrows all the time, except to mate, so it doesnt take a serious boffin or leap of the imagination to figure that a T such as a Brachypelma sp. could survive in a river bank type microhabitat in an area that one wouldnt assume it would survive in based on average climatic statistics. I could go on and on and on; sadly and thankfully for this hobby alot of the facts we have today werent available before and it was/is impossible to stop the import of T's into SA, if kilos of coke can get through so can spiders!!

My point is we as members of the hobby have a responsibility to the enviroment, hobby and each other to at least attempt to obey the restrictions put in place by natcon bodies, even if we think they are ridiculous. E.g. T's are illegal in the western cape but copper heads which come from the same climate arent?? If the hobby gets out of control in the eyes of the authorities they are unlikely to finance or accept any research/pleas to extend the hobby and much more likely just to make it illegal to keep any at all. Whilst it would be expensive to enforce the law, it would be cheaper than trying to regulate the hobby if hobbyists are non-compliant. To those members of the hobby that are profit driven, if there is no hobby left due to your unscrupulous behavior you will make very little profit.

It is a privelage to be able to keep, study and interact with these amazing life forms, not a right. It is important to also remember that they are just that, life forms and they should be respected, otherwise eventually they will land up as genetically warped as other pet animals, e.g. persian cats with no tear ducts

as its a public forum we also have the responsibility to correct any wrong perceptions or any incorrect facts presented.

It would also be dishonest to post any information garnered from someone else as your own just for the sake of "looking good". Give credit where it is due whether it be pictures or stats or info.

Though participation is welcomed, it would be irresponsible to leave incorrect facts uncorrected and send the readers on their merry way armed with half truths.

Where not sure it is wise to get the facts from the people in the know ... and trust that those who opted to respond will be mature enough to handle any queries on their statements. That is how we all learn.

By posting on a public forum we all open ourselves to public opinion and comments.

The only repetative behaviour i would like to see dissapate is the fact that everything gets taken so personaly.

On that note is still stand by what i previously stated ... a law is a law for a good reason, and we have a responsibility to ourselves and our hobby to uphold it.

Gravid tarantulas can get out and populate an area and wipe out the local species in that area - so some of your arguments dont hold I am afraid.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for conservation and conservation on species.

Raymon, for the record, when I was in the pet trade, I was one of those shops that went on what conservation said - I never sold tarantulas, even though I was well within my right to do so.

I was part of the Spider Club of SA for decades and we were always told by Conservation that it was illegal to keep tarantulas - so as good law abiding citizens, we didn't. I must say, discovering that there is infact NO law not permitting a person from importing and keeping tarantulas was not nice.

anyway, I think my point has been missed here. I was simply saying that spiders outside our borders are exotic and legally we can keep exotics or atleast, there is nothing preventing it.

There are many species of tarantula that could survive in the SA climate should they escape, so the same risk applies to them as an OBT escaping...

"You are seeing this from your own (money making) view" - Rayman, I would like you to retract this statement and refrain from making such statements in the future! You can't substantiate the statement and it is completely uncalled for and discrediting of me as a person.

I have contributed positively to conservation of species (as indicated in the introduction) and have contributed positively to the reptile and tarantula hobby making it what it is today, so I resent the comment - I was simply putting an argument forward and giving input.

I would encourage the moderators of this site to make sure that individuals do not make defamitory statements that can't be substantiated.

The law is the law. Pterinochilus and Ceratogyrus are illegal according to the law. Deal with it.
Further more, if there is no law against bringing spiders into the country, you want to explain why you need permits to bring them in?
No retraction here.